In the end there is no showing of a force barrier, and not a TK feat. To come back to the Midichlorian stuff, I guess it's the most acceptable theory that the number of cells (volume) matters and not just the concentration on itself but there are quit a bit examples which go against that to be honest. Some of Vader's biggest and most intense moments take place in the books, comics, and TV shows that make up the rich galaxy of Star Wars. The mystery of Anakin’s father has finally been revealed. This is a typical building explodes and "insert character" survives the destruction somehow feat. And if you don't want me to respond or hear my opinions, say so directly, I won't tag you then. Vader is stronger and tougher. Both are bloodlusted In all out of dueling? Probably Anakin. @kbroskywalker: Yep. At least, in Legends. @wollfmyth209: That is when Vader turns back to th Light and became Anakin again... @sirfizzwhizz: I'd say Vader's feats are typically better except in the rare times Anakin achieves oneness. Vader has fought and won more lightsaber battles, has more often and consistently exhibited superior Force feats and was an all-around better fighter than Anakin was. And if you don't want me to respond or hear my opinions, say so directly, I won't tag you then. An episode of Star Wars: The Clone Wars season 3 has Anakin Skywalker turning to the dark side a year before becoming the Sith Lord Darth Vader in Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith, and shows just why Mustafar was so important to his transformation.While Anakin becomes a Jedi again by the end of the episode, the circumstances of his brief fall from grace speak to the reasons … Even without potential arguments, Anakin's force feats and accolades is more than enough to keep from being overpowered by Vader. I guess it's supposed to be some sort of symbolic memory where Darth Vader consumed Anakin Skywalker. RELATED: Star Wars: The Dark Secrets Behind Darth Maul's Robot Legs, Revealed This Vader would have existed right after the Battle on Mustafar, so it would have been a redeemed Anakin Skywalker. Darth Vader Killed Darth Maul's Clone. It appeared that Darth Maul had the upper hand, but before he … @wollfmyth209: How do you define "Force reserves" then? Only for the fact that he has great knowledge of young Anakin's fighting style. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. So... which one do we go by? Pain fed his hate, and hate fed his strength. You can't possibly expect me to agree on your or any other debater's opinions every single time, that is just ludicrous. Even then I can dismiss the first feat with the "cathedral' as all cathedrals have specific weak points from engineering design due to the nature and stylistic effects of said cathedrals. @wollfmyth209: potential wise maybe, but looking at both legends and canon, Vader uses the force and save for a couple of outliers(mortis for example) Vader has better showings. He should stomp honestly. We haven't even come to feats as of yet, as far as the force is concerned. Prime Darth Vader (Return of the Jedi) vs . Oh that's not what I'm saying. His pale, flame-savaged face stared back at him from out of the reflective black surface of his pressurized meditation chamber. His wisdom, experience and knowledge certainly grew, but he's logically the inferior Force user[in terms of sheer magnitude], duelist and overall fighter. Vaders best feats are either slightly better, or on par. Round 2: Force. He is faster, stronger, and more agile. Anakin Skywalker, also known as Darth Vader, is a major character in Star Wars Canon. However, in canon, it looks like it's shaping up to have Vader superior to Anakin in a clear cut fashion. Anakin Skywalker was trapped in a similar paradox, trying to be good even though he was destined to become Darth Vader. In Canon, it's stated Anakin had actually become more powerful after becoming Darth Vader (I suppose this is because the lost potential thing is no longer canon, as it was GL's statement/understanding, and not actually established in the films). He now was Darth Vader! Anakin moving over 100+ tons of Separatist Dreadnought ship into a path of missiles. Also, if Luke could stalemate/match him, then it is a huge credit to him, not necessarily a loss to Vader, not to mention that it was a highly circumstantial fight in the first place. The comic series takes place after the events of The Empire Strikes Back. @wollfmyth209: Power? Once, as a Jedi, he had meditated to find peace. Comic Vine; Forums; Battles; Darth Vader vs MCU Thor ... Wiki Points. @sirfizzwhizz: Vader lost to Luke because he was conflicted and Luke got rage amped. After the events of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith, Darth Vader is thrust into his Sith training. In Legends it was pretty obvious that he didn't like his new suit and anything that came with it so he would logically look at his former self as being "better". Where is that shown again? Read the facts. One could argue that Vader target weak spots, or simply targeted the roof to cave in. Regarding the fight, what reasons do you have for Anakin being more powerful than Vader, other than the fact that Vader lost a chunk of his flesh? #1 Edited By PerfectNazo Dark side Anakin from episode 3 against Darth Sidious from episode 3. And my point isn't Anakin's potential being greater in the slightest. The Darth Vader of the movies started a fearsome legend, while the other medias worked to build upon it. Now he meditated to sharpen the edges of his anger. Yes. Though Anakin did suffer horrendous injuries resulting in physical incapacitation, the technology presented in this suit proves he may have been even more powerful than in his actual Darth Vader … I'll concede on the quote for now. And Vader didn't just lose limbs; he got almost his entire body completely burned. And all this is obviously as far as we are using normal Anakin only, not his "Zonakin" self. *Sigh* You also seem to be one of the more persistant debaters I've come across :/. Anakin was always the superior being. @sirfizzwhizz: Actually... Vader entered Oneness when he killed Palpatine because plot and prophecy. RELATED: Magneto Vs Darth Vader: Who Would Win? I see no reason why someone with far more favourable circumstances and advantages than Luke(i.e. Legends has Anakin being the stronger of the two, whilst in Canon, Vader's unquestionably written to be Anakin's superior. Mace or Yoda can match Anakin and hold him off while the other beats Dooku, and Grievous eventually beats Maul or dies. @geistalt: @wollfmyth209: what wolf said. If you are referring to the loss of raw power/potential, I am sure you are aware that Anakin never reached even remotely close to his full potential, by ROTS, and consequently, his raw power is nowhere close to what it could have been. That logic would only apply if Anakin's 20k+ midi-chlorians were evenly distributed in his body, or if he lost a piece of every single cell, but that's not the case. Actually even in Legends( GL canon), Vader is said to be more powerful than he ever was, in the ROTJ novel. Nevertheless, even if we go by feats, he is clearly superior to Anakin, and a large number of these feats are decades before said prime of Vader. Rips in half a giant spider Droid the size of a tank. Throws back a large stone column, easily 30 tons area, and then blows Ventress through a very thick stone wall. Does Anakin at his best beat Vader via force? So yes, if this was force only, and we exclude Anakin's high end feats, Vader wins. But honestly it's true that in legends it's pretty evident that whilst powerful, and superior in experience, technical skill, knowledge and precision as well as a tighter defense, Vader is unashamedly a shell of his former self and I can certainly see Anakin, with his superior speed, talent, reserves and unrelenting agression defeating his older self. Lukes innate skill and potential for dueling overcame the experience and cybernetic limited Vader as well. Vader also by feats never fought the quality opponents his younger Anakin self has. Also Anakin is insane strong in legends by feats with plenty to match Vader. Too bad Vader is stated to be in prime during Rebels, and not ROTJ. Anakin Skywalker's massacre of a Tusken Raider clan in Attack of the Clones foreshadowed his eventual descent to the Dark side, but it also made the Star Wars antagonist feared among the species. If there was no knowledge beforehand, Anakin would win. Greater force potential led to greater skill and learning. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. 10 Vader Vs. Ahsoka Definitely Anakin. Vader was once the esteemed Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker, whose unparalleled midichlorian count labeled him as the Chosen One destined to bring balance to the Force. Anakin was simply the better. I can perfectly understand that because he lost a good deal of his potential his growth in the Force would be slowed down and he wouldn't even come close to his normal potential. One of the three powerful members of the Sith Triumvirate, Darth Nihilus … "Vader completed his meditation and opened his eyes. The best TK feats Vader does has is in Legends feats. Canon and legends feats and accolades may be applied, @wollfmyth209@shootingnova@silver2467@darkdefender@zapan871@sirfizzwhizz@jedixman@dadivineking, So zen mode Anakin? Skywalker saga So I may or may not respond to your next counter. Vader's feats are better, but he's also much, much more explored in his Sith days than Jedi days -- which is understandable as people like Vader as a Sith more than as a Jedi; I blame Hayden Christinsen getting poor direction from Lucas for that, but whatever. So Canon source > out dated legends source. @wollfmyth209 What am I supposed to do then? Oh thats right, its not. @darthduelist9: I think it's because Vader was considered "a shadow of his former self" by Palpatine. Without the neural connection to his armor, he was conscious of the stumps of his legs, the ruin of his arm, the perpetual pain in his flesh. Anakin believes that only he can rule the galaxy, and decides to confront The Emperor. He only beat it by cutting the feet off with a Saber. Drags Jedi temples librarian, ready to fight, into his Saber. From – Star Wars: Darth Vader #24 At least he chose better in the end. His far greater Force reserves directly correlate to him having superior innate talent, physical augmentation and -- through that, by extention -- skill. Darth Vader's life support system was disabled by Cylo IV and all of this happened inside his head. Show me Vader subduing via TK beings like the Son and Daughter, Anakin has. Talent? He had two decades to grow, but for the first 19 years of that power growth he was likened to a shadow of his former self, thus if it took him 19 years just to no longer be a "shell of Anakin", I cannot imagine an extra four years placing him as noticeably ahead of Anakin. That... also doesn't counter my argument. Followers. @geistalt: Talent? Once Skywalker became Darth Vader he would be worshipped by the species, despite the Sith Lord's disdain for the Tusken Raiders.. He also has a main and recurring role in games, comics, books and the non-canon Star Wars Legends material. Prime Anakin Skywalker (Invisible Hand) Round 1: Duel. The fact that Luke Skywalker -- someone with less potential, and exponentionally less training than Anakin -- has managed to tap into his raw Force reserves enough to challenge and impress Vader, would be proof of this. Vader of course! Not to mention Vader is tactically ahead. Nothing really superior. Someone requested that I do a comparison between Anakin and Vader in Star Wars Battlefront II to see if there are any similarities in their move sets. Revisiting the events of his life during a walk through the Force, Vader sees a vision of his mother being overshadowed by Emperor Palpatine, clearly manipulating the life in her womb. Logically, this means his Force reserves simply are not what they used to be; something backed up by Vader, Palpatine and several other sources. And all this is obviously as far as we are using normal Anakin only, not his "Zonakin" self. The only issue is Anakin has to be in the zone, and tap his potential, but bloodlusted and not in character, he can tap that potential again. Reviews: 0. Dueling wise he incoperated all 7 forms. My point isn't that it's a loss or a win for Vader, but that if someone with far less training and potential than Anakin could use his innate talent to challenge Vader on even footing, then Anakin should perform much better. Not sure what the point here is. He not only had the advantage of being fully trained in the ways of the Jedi, but also was being trained in the ways of the dark side, which increases one's power drastically, at a far higher rate than normal. Luke inherited Anakins skill and talent with a saber. Seriously.... @wollfmyth209: How could Vader be less powerful the Anakin? Anakin also beats Vader in sabers, that much is true. Anakin may have had the potential to be more skilled but skill wise Vader has better showings. @kbroskywalker: I have no idea why you spam me with irrelevant junk, despite me already noting I will never respond because you're thick-headed, persistent, and your arguments are... well ComicVine mods will ban me if I use that word. Legends has Anakin being the stronger of the two. Personally, I'd support Vader for all round. I can show plenty of feats of TK on Vaders level. Here many said Vader used TK to shield from the blast and collapse. In a duel, Vader's only edges would be knowledge on Anakin's form, which Kenobi and Dooku both had and it still didn't save them, and technical skill, which as Anakin demonstrates: isn't a problem for him. Retellings and media that does not further Anakin's story will not be counted. @americanspeeddemon: That was Vader's personal thoughts, much like him saying: "Anakin was weak so I destroyed him". My point is his Force reserves, innate talent and overall raw power are simply portrayed as superior. This opened the C… Post all you want; it's just lately I narrowed down the people I'd be running in a loop with, and people I could actually have a proper debate with. Boomstick: Darth Vader's weapon of choice is his Lightsaber, which he is very skilled with. Legends is definitely Anakin at least in the force and has been noted on multiple occasions Iirc. 2 Can't Beat: Darth Nihilus. Plus Anakin is Vader, so Vader literally knows everything about him, the only thing Anakin has more than Vader is agility. It's why Vader lost to Luke. Ahsoka Tano's Star Wars Rebels duel with Darth Vader is imagined in a live-action setting in a new fan-poster. I done this many time in several Anakin vs Vader threads. People need to deal with it. Wiz: Getting a red Lightsaber for being evil, Vader was a very powerful Sith lord and had killed Luke's mentor Ben Kenobi during the fourth movie. Skill? 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